Kenny, I think this depends on what frequencies are being considered here. At RF frequencies then I recall seeing that grounding the shield at one end can make the shield behave as an antenna whereas at audio frequencies this is not the case. Of course one then needs to ask whether the antenna is broadcasting noise or picking it up.
Yes, indeed after stipping noise out of a system it can initially sound dull in a back to back comparison but it is my experience that the noise (or rather the noise induced artefacts) are masking true detail and that after a period the ear/brain recalibrates and hears the now audible fine detail. I disagree with you that stripping more noise out will take away the dullness and my experience is that taking away superficial dullness is probably adding back noise again. Mind you, ādullnessā or a calmer sound is not to be confused with say a muddy mid range completely lacking in detail which can indeed be caused by noise artefacts as can a harsh top end and ill defined bass.
In passing I would mention that none of this noise alters the audible noise floor of a system because the frequency of the noise is outside the audible spectrum.
I think we are in agreement. I was implying that stripping out more noise will illuminate more fine details (life, etc) rather than remove dullness. It is like eyes adjusting to darkness to see more low light, our perception of sound changes so we hear more.
As I see (or hear) it, noise creates distortion which sometimes dominates the overall sound. In a system that can not extract the details very well, the distortion created by noise is like a substitute for details which at that time we might find enjoyable. But in a better quality system, as an analogy, the distortion is shouting so loud and much we simply canāt hear the whispers or recognise the voices of speaking the system is able to extract ā¦ or it so bright we are sort of blinded like a nocturnal animal.
In that context, when we are accustomed to hearing the distortion and it is reduced, it can āsound somewhat dullā relatively. In addition, the noise and distortion may not yet be low enough to hear enough of the true detail. So there can be an awkward in between. There has been many times I have put in place something to reduce noise/distortion and found it, at that time, feeling a bit drab overall but I subsequently learned it was because my system was not able to instead bring out enough of the true sound. As a simple example, upgrading a power cable when the speaker cables had far less performance = the power cable is perfectly good, just did not suit the context.
Sorry for rambling, however this applies to the context of recent posts (above) about ethernet and my observations from exploring ethernet improvements. There is a journey of reducing noise that might need to pass through an awkward relatively dull phase on the way to revealing/discovering and reducing other sources of ethernet noise and achieving better sound.
Thanks all for the insightful comments. I have checked the details of my ethernet cable in terms of specifications.
Premium quality Cat6a data cables. Manufactured with Belden 1303E Catsnake cable and quality shielded RJ45 connectors with a metal shroud
In order to minimise any unwanted interference each pair of conductors is foil screened; this then works in conjunction with the integral overall-braided shield to reduce EMI. The pair of conductors are also twisted to reduce noise - in effect cancelling out one another. My version has the shield left floating at both ends as I was advised that this prevents potential ariel effects/grounding issues. As a resut my cable will not perform to Cat6a specifications, but will still function well as Cat5e, which is as I understand one of the most common types of specification in HiFi setups. Certainly NAIM and DCS seem to recommend this type of approach as some parts of their kit are not grounded.
With regard to noise floor I have tried to make every effort to build a low noise system, with power conditioners, active grounding and resonance control. The music does apear from a very black background with great attack and decay. I do however have 65 year old ears so may be missing HF hash if present though
I am learning alot about digital music and want to optimise the signal as much as possible so will look at optical fibre and potentially Network Accoustics kit.
Just so you all know I have tried several networks cables a while ago.
Guess what the best one I foundā¦
The one in the box supplied with the Antipodes, has anyone compared this to a very high end cable?
You may be surprised.
Cat6a comes in a variety of types starting with UTP (unshielded twisted pair), FTP (foil around each twisted pair), STP (shielded twisted pair - normally has all its pairs surrounded by mesh) and finally FSTP (foil shielded twisted pair with has foil to each twisted pair and with foil around the outside of all of them). All of these are Cat6a cables and the only easy way of telling them apart is to look for the printed designation on the outside of the cable.
So it is not necessarily the case that your cable is not performing to Cat6a specs especially as the spec has the aim of supporting 10Gbps transmission speed over the standard 100m and I am guessing your cable length is nowhere near 100m in length.
What you have described about your cable sounds impressive, but really is pretty srandard ethernet cabling to meet the spec. Most audiophile ethernet will be constructed similarly, but typically spend more attention on quality conductors, shield materials, etc theyāve learned works with analog and USB cables and adapted.
Typically the network experts recommend to keep cables as short as possible, like cm rather than metres. They recognise cables are not immune, hence why different Categories are rated to specific maximum distances, presumably because longer lengths gain too much interference (and other degradation) to perform reliably to the spec.
BTW Network Acoustics donāt use fibre (as far as I am aware) but are secretive about what is in their boxes
Even though it rather looks like something youād use to tie up a rubbish bag, that was my experience with the cable that came with my K50 too. Trialled between the K50 & MBL N31, with the latter used as a Roon endpoint, it was far & away better than the various SOtM & Audioquest cables I had available.
Thatās not how I actually use my set-up for the most part, as although I wouldnāt abandon Roon Server, I find Squeeze greatly superior to Roon as a player. That applies whether Roon is set as player on the K50, or when Iāve tried direct streaming to my MBL N31 Roon endpoint.
It was mostly just an experiment out of interest & to some extent itās a shame that I still prefer Squeeze player on the K50. When used with the N31 as a Roon endpoint a slight wave of the hand anywhere in the vicinity of the CD DAC & its screen lights up to display the high resolution artwork. Not really required, but still nice. Never mind, I suppose we canāt have it all ways.
Does anyone by chance happen to know the exact specification of the supplied cables, shielded / unshielded / ground at one or both ends etc?
I think I have the correct one in my hand at this moment and if so it is 26AWG Cat6A S/FTP (ie shielded and with each twisted pair with its own foil shield). I have checked and the shield is connected (ie grounded) at both ends.
But all this depends on me having picked up the correct cable from the ones on the floor near my system!! I donāt use it and prefer to use a 50cm length CAT6A UTP (unshielded twisted pair) between the Oladra and the switch.
EDIT :- @Chilli I have just found another cable which is also a possible for being the one supplied with my Oladra. This one is CAT6 U/UTP. So please treat anything I am saying on this with a large amount of caution!!
@NickBacon : It worked extremely well in that particular situation & I actually prefer the sound of the N31 as a Roon endpoint to Roon player being used on the K50. Itās just that I greatly prefer Squeeze player on the K50 to either of them & by some margin.
I wish it wasnāt the case (for ease of use) but I prefer Squeeze server and Squeeze player on my Oladra by some margin compared to Roon server and Squeeze player and in third place is Roon server and Roon player.
@NickBacon : Squeeze server does sound marginally better than Roon server on my system, but Iād stress that it is fairly marginal & not enough for me to abandon the feature set that comes with using Roon.
Roon player on the other hand starts to grate on me after a fairly short period of time. I just find thereās a hard unmusical edge to the soundā¦In all honesty I havenāt tried Roon player in quite a while & maybe I should do so again, but on previous occasions Iāve always found it rather an unrewarding experiment.
Iād also point out that I didnāt always get satisfactory results with Roon Server in to Squeeze player either & at one time I was swopping back & fore between Roon player & Squeeze player with aspects of the use of both that I found unsatisfactory (when used in conjunction with Roon Server).
Turning off the Flac compression on Roon used with Squeeze made the biggest difference, but I also have all of the superfluous (IMO) processes in Roon such as analysis turned off as well. Nor do I use any of the newly re-named Muse features on Roon such as up-sampling, convolution filter etc. I havenāt just ignored them & have experimented with them, itās just that I prefer not to use them, because to my ears & on my system it sounds better that way.
Thanks dbastian. You are right it is not particularly fancy cable. It looked good in theory and many users on the DCS and NAIM forums rated it quite well versus other much more expensive ethernet cables.
Given the length of the cable currently, fibre may be a good next step. Need to save for a while to get that right.
Just curious you have the SR Powercell- did you have anything prior to compare.
I have the excellent Puritan PM136 which replaced a Isotek VIsion 2 , absolutely destroyed the Isotek in all areas luckily sold on eBay within a day.
My dealer really rates the SR products especially the Powercellās.
Martin, I previously owned an Audioquest Niagra 7000 with the Audioquest Hurricaine Powercord. I traded this in for the Powercell SX and Galileo PC as the Powercell created a blacker background and lifted the dynamics and harmonics. The Niagra also had a transformer hum which may have been down to a ground loop somewhere in my system. - drove me nuts.
Adding the Synergistic Active Ground Block made a further worthwhile improvement - attached to all my kit including the Powercell but excluding my turntable.
I will be installing a ground rod grounding system when I get my Oladra upgraded to have a grounding point. I will be using the Puritan Ground Master (already purchased) for the sake of safety. It was @clive101 who persuaded me to install a ground rod earthing system after he reported his successes with it.
