Antipodes Audio - Updated Range and Upgrade Program - July 2023

Announcements
165

I have no issue with the constant moving target of model changes as we do have the choice to upgrade.

BUT

My main issue is the pricing , it is more fair to some model owners than others which does leave me disgruntled.

Don’t get me wrong, it is Antipodes to set their pricing and if they wish (IMHO) to overprice the Oladra because it’s a flag ship model that is for them to decide. To expect me to be can be fobbed off with “Quality parts for quality products” is not an answer I would expect from Antipodes. Firstly I assume this for all models and it does not relate to why the Oladra upgrade is so high when compared to other models.

All I want is a fair and reasonable upgrade price, I demonstrated two issues where the pricing does not relate to the upgrade and disadvantages Oladra owners.

I part exchanged two K50 s for two Oladra s only to find a few months later most of the tech in the Oladra was going to be put in the K50 so not too happy at the moment to be quite honest.

This time next year or before the K50 will exceed the the Oladra call it the K50 Mk4 :wink:

Perhaps we may get a reasonable reply.

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166

First of all I don’t think that any producer is obliged to share deep insights in their way of pricing and / or cost calculation. For all I know Antipodes could be making huge profits or be on the edge of survival due to high research costs. And of course all options in between. Furthermore I ‘just’ own a CX and EX for which I don’t have the funds to upgrade or replace. Still a happy owner enjoying music in all my spare time.
Perhaps we should all try to enjoy the music = emotion and be less preoccupied with having the latest upgrades and trying to remain the highest economic value. Just my humble opinion.

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167

None of the manufacturers of my system (Focal, Mola Mola, StromTank, Inakustik, Inuous) has ever offered any upgrade. And to the poster above, neither do Porsche or Ferrari as far as I know. I am happy about the offer.

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168

I get it that whenever we make changes, some will be welcoming and some won’t. You are all entitled to your individual opinions on the upgrades, but I would like to set the facts straight.

The Oladra technology is not being put in the K50 case. That is why it took us 12 months to adapt the technology to hit a lower price level, and it means it hits a lower performance level too.

The cost of upgrading the Oladra is NOT cheaper for us to perform than it is for the K50.

The cost of the upgrade is not driven by the price increases.

The upgraded Oladra is quite a different animal than the upgraded K50. Very much more open, deep and natural. The K50 benefits mainly from getting the kind of ease and flow that the Oladra possesses, and this is a bigger gain for the K50 owners, for sure - no argument there.

We have a simple pricing policy. We multiply parts costs by a number that covers our other costs and then do some rounding. The multiplier is constant across all products. We have to have a different multiplier for upgrades because ‘other costs’ are a higher proportion of the total costs. The multiplier is the same across all upgrades. We do not have a higher multiplier for the Oladra. Our prices are cost-based, rather than value-based, because we see that as being more ethical.

When we get ready to do upgrades we try to pack in as much value as will make the upgrade cost worthwhile. For example, if we only added the new USB output in the upgrades, the upgrade cost would not have been much less and would have been disproportionately driven by the cost of getting the units to us, dealing with two border authorities, unpacking, testing prior to upgrade, testing after upgrade, packing, shipping the units back to you and dealing with two border authorities again. I realise you derive no benefit from those procedures but they do involve real people that want to be paid for their work.

So, what if you decide not to upgrade this time round? Just as we have upgrades for the K30 and early K50, we won’t leave you behind. You will just need to pay a bit more in the next upgrade offered if you choose to take it. How much more depends on the extra parts involved.

We are super happy to have you guys as customers and will do our best by you, consistent with me being able to meet all the bills and keep my wife in shoes. It is incredibly valuable to us to understand how you feel about what we do, and I don’t want to interrupt this very interesting discussion. I just wanted to state our position on a few statements that have been made.

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169

I do believe Mola Mola offered a DAC upgrade to Roon Ready via RJ45 in the past. I have a pre-owned Makua with the DAC. I purchased it shortly after the owner had the upgrade accomplished–I confirmed the manufacturer checkout and recent upgrade with Mola Mola prior to purchase.

I appreciate the business model of offering both hardware and software upgrades. My experience with home theater processors was to purchase new model for upgraded features. It was pretty common to see new models offered as often as annually. I tired of that and have not replaced my current HT processor for many years now.

170

I empathize with OLADRA owners’ voiced frustrations on their costs to upgrade with less parts changes. I would expect some of the expense is baked in due to freight back and forth on heavy, large boxes. Insurance would be quite pricey as well. If Antipodes is reducing the increased cost by not paying for insurance, they are essentially self-insuring for loss and damage. Though I would anticipate Antipodes has more favorable rates than individuals, it could be a revealing exercise to get a shipping estimate quote on the weight and dimensions of shipping package to Antipodes.

I would think a helpful suggestion to Antipodes is to consider a meaningful reduction in upgrade cost for recent purchasers–something on the order of having purchased new unit, possibly within 30, 60, or 90 days.

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171

Whilst I’m not balking at the cost of upgrades to a K50 MK2 I still fail to see how the cost of upgrading the two box equivalent of that model (K41 & K22) works out at exactly the same upgrade cost, nor for that matter can I see why they’re now collectively priced the same as a new K50.

You can’t honestly tell me that a K50 costs you as much to upgrade or build as two separate units requiring both additional parts & additional labour.

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172

It really saddens me that you believe we are being dishonest. It seems to me that some of you are getting caught up in making unfounded assumptions about our costs and motives, with a clear underlying belief that we must be out to rip you off.

I am not in this business to tell people lies or rip them off. It makes me think we should reduce our communications, since it seems that sharing detail just misleads you into these unfounded assumptions - but no, I am not going to do that. In this instance, I will do the reverse…

USD250 more, is the answer to how much a K41 & K22 cost more than a K50 in their latest iterations. In my view, this is within the rounding margin, so we don’t have a different price.

The upgrade parts cost of the K41 & K22 is actually lower than it is for the K50. The greater amount of free space in the K41 and K22 reduces the changes to new case-work requirements.

I will leave it at that, as it just seems to be throwing fuel on a fire for some of you. Sadly, we cannot please all of the people all of the time, no matter how much we want to.

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173

How can one fairly assess the price without having actually heard the results? Given Antipodes’ track record, it’s very likely the upgrade will more than justify the price. The Oladra is Antipodes flagship. I can’t imagine that they would allow the upgraded K50 to come closer to catching up to it. The price increase suggests to me that Antipodes is confident that those who have the means will easily see the value in shelling out additional dollars to go with the Oladra.

Why don’t we just wait until we start seeing feedback from those who have upgraded before we judge whether the upgrade was worth the price?

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174

I really rate your products for sound quality, but you might want to consider possible future upgrades at the original design stage by allowing a little more space. I know you can’t factor for every eventuality, but you can’t punish your clients for what could quite reasonably be viewed as your own lack of foresight. For goodness sake, the Oladra is pretty much a new product, but not only do you never provide a warning of imminent future product changes you also don’t discount the outgoing versions/models. Some will have only just bought one & then find out a matter of days later that it’s already outdated, How can you possibly view that as a fair approach?

You might also want to consider answering client queries somewhat earlier, instead of simply ignoring them. When you did eventually give a response to the numerous queries then a simple “Premium parts for a premium product” opening I personally thought was appalling. Clearly diplomacy isn’t a strong point with yourselves.

Being as the greater costs involved with upgrading the K50 as opposed to the dual box combination of K41/K22 are apparently down to having less space available, then that’s done a great deal towards persuading me not to buy an Oladra which has a considerably smaller case again.

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175

Whew, I feel your pain, if not your point.

One very last comment, trying to get this back on track, if possible.

As stated, the cost of the Oladra upgrade and the K50 upgrade are similar. The K50 upgrade is arguably the bigger upgrade in sound quality terms. The Oladra upgrade very clearly lifts a layer of glare to reveal even more musical insight, and that may be highly prized by some and not by others due to music styles played or system quality or aging ears. Diminishing returns is a factor at this level too. We have not tried to over-sell any of these - just state how we hear them.

To re-iterate, the impetus was the USB upgrade, wanted by many, and made possible by new technology released earlier this year which changed the USB landscape (not showing up in my crystal ball in 2021 sorry), but we decided against taking any of these options:

  1. put the new USB in new models and not offer it as an upgrade (seems very attractive at this minute, I must say)
  2. offer the new USB as the only upgrade because of the non-parts costs of upgrades (best avoided, I think we will all agree)
  3. delay the release of the USB for a year or three (though it would perhaps have avoided all of this angst).

So we decided to do this:
4. pack more value into the upgrades to support our usual upgrade pricing and spread the non-parts costs over a larger upgrade benefit (not terribly appreciated, as we see now).

I am interested in which one everyone would prefer us to do in future?? Unfortunately the ‘get a better crystal ball’ option is not really practical.

If you doubt the upgrade is of interest for you this time then don’t do it, please. Or as keenyb123 suggests, wait till there has been some feedback from others. We don’t see these offers being withdrawn any time soon.

If you like a 3 or even a 5 year time-frame between purchase and upgrade, the choice is yours you know. You can make that be the case simply by delaying when you upgrade.

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176

Please just disregard the nastiest of responses as this wasn’t representative of how the rest of us feel. Seems like at least one person needs to enroll in anger management training.

I wouldn’t change a thing as far as your announcements for the K series products. Given how new the Oladra is though, maybe you could have better anticipated the reaction to the price increase. Your dealers would likely benefit from good talking points on that as well.

Maybe you should have held off on announcing the Oladra upgrade pending the reaction to the upgraded model. I think that might have generated demand for the upgrade due to fear of missing out.

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177

As an entrepreneur I really value what is happening with the participation in this forum. This is truly a great example of T he voice from the client.
What I see here, even on less happy clients on one or other factors, is that everyone praises Antipodes and the technical solutions offered.

Everyone is happy about the upgrade possibility. But not all are happy about the way you implemented these upgrades. A speak-out client is 1000000 times better than a silent client that simply abandons the brand and never returns.

Let us be honest guys, have you at Antipodes thought that you are doing everything in the most perfect way, than any dissonant voice looks immediately unfair towards you?

I can see your strategy to offer the best upgrades for every client.
But I can also see some valid points raised by your clients that must not be ignored:

  • I don’t know of any high end brand releasing new versions of their products every year (please don’t tell me about Sony, Denon, Pioneer… these are not on Antipodes level). Name one truly high end brand releasing 3 versions or the same model in less than 3 years like you are doing with K50. Brand at the top tear, like Taiko, Pink Faun, Dan Dagostino, Magico, Wilson Audio, Esoteric, Nordost… keep their lines unchanged for some years. All these brands I mentioned are highly praised around the world.

  • Clients who bought new Antipodes products recently, certainly are not happy to see their products outdated, within some weeks time after they’re investment . Some kind of discount should be offered to do these upgrades (not my case). In the current situation, if they want to update they will pay more than new clients.

If I was managing Antipodes I would be really happy to have this great participation from my clients.
Listen to the voices here. Grab this opportunity. Not many companies have this important feedback.

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178

Jesus, what a bunch of entitled wankers.
Disappointment is one thing, accusations of dishonesty are something way else.
Get the upgrade for the price, or don’t.
Capitalism will see who sinks and swims. For my money Antipodes is a swimmer right now, but we will see how things go over time as I seem to be much less upset than a few others.
Do I wish my Oladra was already upgraded for little money? Yes of course, but this is the way the cookie crumbles.
“Value” is bullshit at this price level anyway, so my vote is we support the Marks and try to help them help us into the future with stuff that’s cheaper than the Taiko insanity.

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179

It’s certainly not the norm for Antipodes to offer upgrades every year. The CX/EX was released in 2018 and to the best of my knowledge there has been only one upgrade offered. I got my K30 in early 2021 and the first upgrade is only now just becoming available. Sorry, but I think complaining about too frequent upgrades is silly as no one is being forced to upgrade.

The product they paid for is still the product they paid for.

I’m having a hard time seeing how this or what I quoted above are really valid points. I have little doubt that after time passes those who reacted emotionally to these things are going to patting themselves on the back for making the choice to get their servers upgraded.

I agree but they also have to keep in mind that news causes people to react emotionally and that after they’ve had a chance to think things that maybe the sky wasn’t actually falling.

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180

Hi LGA

Exactly, it is great to know how people are feeling.

We have asked this question before and the customers that responded overwhelmingly wanted us to keep developing and allow upgrades rather than update on say a 5 year cycle.

At the other end of the spectrum I know of several manufacturers that sneak the changes in unannounced in order to stay competitive, and so while the model does not change officially, people know to ask ‘what year of manufacture is yours?’ when buying second hand. No upgrade is announced so none is offered. Again, this was rejected by our customers.

Which is precisely why we ask the question again.

Has the preference changed since last time we asked?

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181

No. Appreciate the transparency and opportunity to upgrade where possible.

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182

Keep on keeping on I say. My Oladra will come be upgraded and I am very happy that I have invested in a product that does NOT remain stagnant.

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183

I have been in the hobby for over 50 years and during that time have had countless pieces of equipment that never gave me an upgrade choice. While I may not full like the cost of expensive upgrades I do appreciate the choice and the ability to have it done. I also agree that for the K50 Having a 3rd upgrade in such a short time is unusual but I do believe the server/player /reclocker is the equipment area experiencing a rapid evolutions like the Dac’s did over a decade ago.

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184

I have just ordered the upgrade for my 2nd generation K50. I feel that the upgrade price is more than reasonable for what is on offer. Trading my current K50 for a new model would cost considerably more. If I chose not to upgrade, my existing K50 would still sound great.
In my view there are a few storms in teacups going on here . One of the facts of life is that things are constantly changing and products improve. How frequently we change anything is entirely within our control.
Antipodes is to be applauded for trying to achieve digital replay at higher levels.
As others have said, few products we buy have such a programme in place.
No-one here seems to have heard what the improvements are as yet but I am prepared to buy sight unseen as I have faith in the integrity of Antipodes.

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