Obviously our comparison of Roon vs. Squeeze is specifically within the context of the Antipodes system and to follow up an that:
…and since October this year, on Taiko Extreme, Roon has been deemed to sound best, with a choice of one of three custom filters applied. Users unanimously report no negative qualities, and while it’s doubtful, perhaps there’s an aspect they’re overlooking. Could there be something they’re not yet aware of or has Roon simply been un-Rooned and Squeezed by Emile?
I’ll leave it with that, happy listening (next week)!
The reports of Roon coming out on top have largely been after a not-insignificant investment in Taiko’s networking components. And not just their switch but also the Router and the DC filtering doohickey. I believe the total cost of these approaches that of a K50 alone. Even if it’s just half of that, we are talking a lot of money just to get Roon to be the best sounding option. Also this will be short lived as an update will be coming to their own player that will make it the best sounding option again.
From all this a key takeaway is that the right kind of networking optimizations stand the best chance of reducing the harm Roon does. Hopefully we’ll eventually see these enhancements become more affordable.
Recently Emil posted the power consumption numbers for his switch or maybe it was the router. It was low - much lower than what the typical fiber SFP. So the takeaway there is that fiber stops being advantageous when it generates more noise than the surrounding networking components.
The matter of making Roon sound great is something of a mythical beast for me at the moment and I am still not sure whether rumours are enough for me to believe that the mythical beast has been found at Taiko. There were rumoured sightings of the mythical beast with the Grimm LM1 but when I had one in my system for a few weeks I concluded that those rumours were much overstated.
I am still far from convinced that I want to be using Roon despite my lifetime subscription. The main reason is that it has no support for the BBC Sounds app and I am therefore deprived of accessing the BBC music and speech archives (I listen to a lot of BBC Radio 3 classical music).
So I find it very interesting that Roon is criticized so much in terms of his sound. I’ve been using Roon Audio for probably 3 months now. I switched from Squeeze Audio. I like the Roon sound. He is very badly talked about in most of the news here. I can’t follow it at all until now. The CPU load with the K50 is also the same as with Squeeze Audio. So very low. Actually no burden at all for the K50. Hmmm…
@Christian This most recent weekend I have been in full testing mood with switches and optical convertors so last night I decided to revisit the Roon SQ evaluation perhaps prompted by there being an automatic update to Roon on my devices.
I tried Roon + Squeeze and Roon + Roon and used the same Spiral Stair track by Mammal Hands that I had been using for the switches and optical convertors.
Both of the Roon options were OK and I can see why if people didn’t know there was any better SQ available then they would be happy with the sound.
Then I went back to Squeeze + Squeeze and it was one of those ‘oh wow, this is the real deal’ moments. The music is just so more engaging.
Roon is back in its box for a few more weeks. Unused and unloved in this house.
Hello Nick, today I switched again to Squeeze (audio). Well, very rich and organic sound that Squeeze (Audio) delivers. You could also call it more captivating. Squeeze (Audio) sounds the most honest to me. Roon (audio) also sounds very interesting, but more withdrawn, airy, inconspicuous, I would also describe it as more spatial. The squeeze sound appeals to me more. That’s very common, the sound of the two is so different. It’s a shame because I really like Roon as an app. But the sound is not at Squeeze level. I don’t really understand Roon (sound wise). Squeeze (Audio) doesn’t sound analytical. I also tested Squeeze + Roon Server. I didn’t like this combination at all. I would say that sounded analytical (Roon+Squeeze). But it started again with Squeeze, I just tried to browse through the settings and Squeeze crashed or froze. After constantly restarting the browser, the squeeze started again but the dropouts followed (iPad Air2, Safari browser). With Roon I have no problems with the same tablet. I have no idea what Squeeze is about. Squeeze doesn’t run stable for me, but it sounds great. Really mean, Roon is so good as a control app, but the sound makes you run away, Squeeze has great sound, poor controls.
I used to get problems with swopping between the various Roon and Squeeze options with the Antipodes interface and I now pay attention when I am doing that and make sure I quit any server apps not being used, eg Roon, when going back to Squeeze after trying Roon.
I quite like the Roon interface but in truth I never use 90% of what Roon offers. If I could have a stripped down basic version of Roon but with Squeeze + Squeeze sound quality I would be very happy. I sort of hope that maybe Antipodes are working on such a thing (wink, wink @MarkCole ).
Anyway, I really don’t understand that people are prepared to put up with Roon sound quality. Why would I want to buy an Oladra then stifle the sound by using Roon.
Last night my wife and I just listened to Radio Paradise using one of the FLAC streams and read our books that we are reading. It sounded good. We much prefer reading and listening to music rather than watching the TV (which we hardly ever watch).
By the way, I use an iPad Air 3rd gen to control Squeeze using the Material Skin web interface on Safari although often I swop to iPeng because for some things I prefer its interface.
EDIT, PS this is one of the tracks we listened to after finishing with Radio Paradise. It just makes me smile with the way the instruments interplay with each other and his voice. Also it sounds so much better with Squeeze + Squeeze rather than Roon.
In aiding Antipodes in the development of music browsing software (wink, wink @MarkCole & @antipodes, similar to what Innuos has accomplished but better), I’d like to ensure I grasp your perspective accurately. Could it be that the 10% of Roon you currently use may not primarily focus on browsing your music collection. Instead, is it the part more geared towards gaining a clear understanding of the music stream and the ability to manage it effectively? I very much liked that and although I had a positive experience with Roon 3-4 years ago, I would find it challenging today to pinpoint the most useful aspects of Roon for establishing a design brief.
Actually all I would really wish to retain from a cut down version of Roon would be some of the slickness of its interface and ability to easily select albums to play from my ripped collection. iPeng and Material does it pretty well but Roon does it better.
I wish for nothing else from a cut down version of Roon.
Also I would be wary of anything that gets any more complicated or sophisticated than that. To my mind the Innuos sound went down hill when they adopted their Innuos Sense app. For a while I had two identical versions of the same Innuos streamer side by side, one with sense and the other with the old LMS + Squeezelite and I preferred the sound of that one. Not by much but enough to hear the difference.
They made a big change to Roon on Windows and Mac. It seems that many this was already the behavior on Linux, so there should be no impact on the Server app.
Interesting: “Roon Server runs as a separate background process and continues to run when you close Roon. If needed, it can be shut down via the System Tray on Windows or the Menu Bar on MacOS.”
This post by a good friend points to another problem with Roon: sound quality can vary from release to release.
Prior to reading this, I read this post reporting a degradation in sound quality following an Innuos upgrade.
Those of us who use Squeeze on Antipodes have not experienced anything like this during the time I’ve been an Antipodes customer. The same is likely true to the other options, as I just haven’t seen any posts like these on this forum.
Back when I started using the K50, I first started with Squeeze Audio. And I was overwhelmed by how the sound jumped out at me. Absolutely captivated. Then 3 to 4 months of getting used to Roon and listening to it, then switching back to Squeeze Audio. And there it was again, this overwhelming, this incredibly organic realistic sound. I could immediately remember the squeeze sound and would confirm that the squeeze sound remains stable.
What about the Signal Path, any use for that?
Or any useful non album/artist related functions?
My ideal Squeeze / Antipodes app would incorporate that part, besides the possibility of browsing albums. But the latter would have to make a clear distinction in local (SSD) files and NAS- or music service files.
It does. Not a user myself but from what I understand Roon sound is always changing between updates. Sometimes it gets better, other times it takes a hit. But until a few days ago, it seemed like it was all uphill for a while – just progress. That’s why there are times you might think it’s not so bad, but then (in theory, a day later), you’re not feeling the SQ. It’s not your ears; it’s just Roon doing its thing.
Prior to reading this, I read this post reporting a degradation in sound quality following an Innuos upgrade.
It seems this pertained to only INNUOS + Roon users, and I’m uncertain whether INNUOS can employ a similar approach to mitigate the side effects of Roon as Taiko does. I don’t use Roon on my INNUOS or Antipodes, and I did not hear a change.
The challenge they currently face with Taiko involves lingering effects from the Roon server, persisting even after the application is closed (but without a reboot it seems to suggest). I am not saying at all Antipodes has the same problem but In the case of Antipodes, it is advisable to deactivate Roon (if you do not use it) in both the server and player applications—better turn off any applications not in use.
I have a similar problem with a CX/EX combo, see Stabilty CX / EX
I reboot them every 2 days in order to maintain maximum sound quality (I use Roon with Roon player or Squeeze player (sound degradation after 2 days occurs in both situations).
