I’ve bypassed my Tambaqui DAC in favor of my SSP with RoomPerfect!

Since getting into audiophile-grade digital music, I have always owned and used a dedicated DAC. Each successive DAC has outperformed the one I used before it. But as of a week ago, I stopped using my Tambaqui DAC. Why?

Quite by accident, I discovered (with the help of a knowledgeable Lyngdorf dealer installer) that a better experience could be had by connecting a USB cable into my Lyngdorf MP-60 directly from my K22 server. After 4 years of having acquired and loving this SSP, I had always discounted its ability to rival some of the better DACS out there in my price range. Long story short, boy was I wrong! Turns out I was doing it wrong! In other words, I had an inexperienced installer who gave me bogus guidance with respect to 2-channel stereo.

But now that I’ve got it sorted out, I have to say I am blown away, and thanks to the remarkable EQ software that is RoomPerfect, I am done with DACS. Yes, the Lyngdorf uses a type of DAC, but it is “proprietary,” and nobody quite knows how it does what it does to convert digital to analog, but the results are nothing short of stunning.

Several of my friends who know my system well experienced “jaw drop.” Now I understand why people labor over DSP and HQPlayer and such. But with RoomPerfect, I’ve come to appreciate that in the history of marketing, I don’t know that a more apropos name has ever been assigned to a product. Why? Because RoomPerfect literally makes the room “perfect.” I’m hearing nuanced sounds and detail and “perfect” tight bass with a greatly enhanced sound stage that I’ve never heard before. Now I hear distortion using the Tambaqui DAC feeding the Makua preamp. I mean, I’ve got decent room treatment in my listening room, but clearly not of a magnitude sufficient to accomplish. What room perfect is able to deliver.

The way it was explained to me is that I now have a purely digital path from my K42 server/K22 player to my Lyngdorf via USB, and there is nothing “lost in translation.”

I know Lyngdorf is selling a ton of the TDAI 3400 integrated units, and now I understand why. There is magic in RoomPerfect in 2-channel, just as there is in my Dolby Atmos 5.2.4 system. At the end of the day, I suppose what this established beyond doubt is that when Antipodes is able to do its job communicating directly with the output source with “perfect” EQ calibration, sound for me becomes the best— far better than my best expectations. It’s truly extraordinary.

Lyngdorf’s philosophy holds that the most important source in our system is not the CD transport or the streamer or the turntable or anything OTHER than… the room itself! It’s kind of like garbage and garbage out. Once you clean up the room and make it “perfect,” then all of our high-end gear can shine in a way it never could with a flawed room, and their belief is that every single room in the world is innately flawed— hence the need for room treatment and our elaborate DSP programs. But with RP, all you have to do is plug in the mic and let it do its thing. Lyngdorf has had the approach that by solving the source of the problems presented by every listening room in the world, then the best equipment could deliver the best-sounding music. My Antipodes gear and Lyngdorf SSP are a match made in heaven.

Does anyone else use RoomPerfect as part of their 2-channel listening ? Frankly, I, for one, can never live without it. I was actually thinking of buying a standalone Room Perfect device (MEN220) manufactured by McIntosh, but it’s $6500 and is actually no more than the software licensed from Lyngdorf - delivered in a shiny McIntosh iconic-looking box. I even thought of dropping in a TDAI 3400 in between my Makua preamp and Krell amplifier, but to their credit, Lyngdorf told me to save the money. “You are not going to be able to improve upon the sound quality that we are getting via the MP-60.” I think he is right.

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Thats interesting. Did you compare the 2 with room perfect disabled?? Had you previously tried Audiolense type DSP for room correction?

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I compared it along with several friends including a friend who manufactures audio gear who has the equivalent of “perfect pitch” as in the world of piano tuners. Comparison not even close. The MP-60 wins out by a wide measure and it’s because of a few factors.

First, this connection is direct from the Antipodes to the Lyngdorf that occurs entirely within the digital domain so the process is not as “convoluted” by which I mean the signal doesn’t go through a DAC and instead enters the MP-60 within the same digital domain. Apparently Lyngdorf uses some very unique filters and then outputs as analogue to my amplifier using RoomPerfect of course. So I believe it is a combination of the direct connection as well as the way the internal board within the MP – 60 processes and handles digital before it gets passed on to their DAC.

Very quietly Lyngdorf has been doing a LOT of business with their integrated amplifiers. Generally people associate the company with video but while they do enjoy a fabulous reputation with their SSP’s they are killing it with their integrated solutions that offer streaming , direct connect with Qobuz and Tidal but more importantly RoomPerfect. That’s the cash cow that hooks people. There’s simply nothing like it. Yes Trinov has what I understand is a very good EQ program but is very complex and an installer is generally needed to install it properly. I don’t want that. With RP, you just sort of “plug and play.” Almost impossible to screw up. Peter Lyngdorf is one of the original pioneers of digital music and now has Bruno Putzeys of Mola Mola fame working with him. And one has to ask, of all of the companies in the world why would Steinway & Sons choose Lyngdorf to partner with in building out high end systems for their concert pianists and super rich whose systems are prepackaged starting at (I believe) about 100k? Think it’s because they build beautiful sounding equipment that’s aesthetically appealing as well.

I have never NOT used RoomPerfect, so no, I’ve never chosen to defeat it because I know in advance it wouldn’t sound nearly as good. Think about this factoid: McIntosh has 2 SSP’S. Entry level model costs another 13k I think. Ships with Audessy. Their flagship unit sells for about 19k. And the main difference is the flagship model has RoomPerfect. They license it from Lyngdorf bc it is THAT good. They also sell the standalone box MEN220 for 6.5K. It’s basically RoomPerfect in a pretty McIntosh box with blue lights. I have read many reviews and most all of the owners state that they could never listen to two channel stereo without it. And no, I’ve not compared it to any other EQ system. No need. But briefly many years ago I had a Marantz SSP with Audessy and returned it after a few days. It was awful. I bought a Krell Foundation and forget what sort of EQ they use but it’s quite good.

Regarding RoomPerfect It’s kind of like asking a Bugatti owner if he’s ever compared his car to a 200k Ferrari or Porsche. He already knows that his 1M car is the best there is, so why compare? No slight to any Porsche or Ferrari but hopefully you get my drift. :sunglasses: I actually had a dealer installer tech tell me he too advises clients to “lose their DAC’s” once he installs an MP-60 or MP-40. Lyngdorf spent 9M to develop RoomPerfect about 20 years ago. Today that’s about 15M ! I can’t think of even the largest company spending that kind of money to develop proprietary room equalization software. Not even McIntosh.

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Im glad youre enjoyi g it.

Apparently it uses Texas Instruments (Burr Brown) 1796 DACs. I use Devialet Pro which uses 1792, slightly better. Devialet also desined its output to have minimum signal path to the amp putput. More interesting is that when its configured as dual mono blocks (like I have 440 Pro) 2 DAC chips in each mono block are reconfigured to produce 1 channel. I wonder if Lyngdorf does that.

Im not sure I understand why you prize USB as a digital input. What inputs were you using for the Mola Mola? Does Lyngdorf believe its better than AES?

Or perhaps they’re saying digital input into RoomPerfect is better than analog input which would need converson to digital.

It seems to me mhat you hearing is the benefitss of RoomPerfect. I jave no doubt its great, and easy. The high performing room correction DSPs I know id are also in thecd digital realm.

They are tyoically alot more DIY and cost alot less.

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Fantastic, two talented people Peter Lyngdorf and Bruno Putzeys. Back in the early 2000, I was experimenting with the Tact RC 2.0 (Room Corrector) and using the Tact Millennium Digital amplifier (Tact= Lyngdorf). Did many conversations with Peter and his wife back in those days and did try many different filters. Later a technician left Lyngdorf to help B&O with their first digital Room Corrected Speaker…And much later, the company I worked for, helped Bruno (later Hypex) with his proto digital amplifier (for Cars). Wonderful Years.
The Room Correction then wasn’t always satisfying :blush:.

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I use a USB in to my MP-60 bc I had one installed at set up initially when I had a different player and DAC. It’s a great question because I do indeed use a FANTASTIC Cerious Tech Lumniscate AES/EBU cable running out from my Antipodes K22 to my Tambaqui DAC. I agree with many others and with @MarkCole that AES seems to sound best. There is indeed an input for an AES cable on my Lyngdorf. Pls see attached for back panel view of inputs and outputs. I am quite sure I can enable it as a Network player; I’d just need my Control4 tech to reconfigure some settings. Is it worth it? I dunno. It sounds great now and I just bought the top of the line WireWord Platinum cable. I have enough length for each cable so suppose I could go back and forth using the Lyngdorf as by now I am satisfied it sounds MUCH better than the Tambaqui/Makua combination. That’s due to a direct digital/digital signal path as well as RoomPerfect of course. There is something special about how their board processes the signal with filters and such. I have it on good authority from a Lyngdorf dealer friend they actually use an ESS DAC but I have not verified this with Lyngdorf.

Should I proceed to sell my cherished Tambaqui and Makua preamp? Torn. For starters I am big on redundant back up. LOL This way if my MP-60 ever needs servicing I have backup , right ? -:slight_smile: But inasmuch as I am convinced that there is inherent superiority in parts and such in the Mola Mola gear, it does not have RoomPerfect and I remain convinced that it is the RP that accounts for the significantly better net result - superior SQ.

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WOW! Fascinating history and thanks for sharing. Privileged to have worked with such immensely talented people! I’ll be they were very gratifying years. I don’t know the detailed history or genesis of RP but suspect Lyngdorf has made many improvements along the way. It’s pretty great right now to be sure.

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Nice to read about this system (especially as I am Danish!). Can’t afford it but good to hear about your experience. Thanks for sharing

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Maybe the 60 has different DACs, here the 40 has Texas Instruments … Lyngdorf MP-40 2.1 AV Processor Review | Page 6 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

And this review says the 60 also does, although the photos are blurry. Lyngdorf MP-60 2.1 Home Theater Processor Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com

Maybe you compare like with like, AES to both mola and Lyngdorf. Then compare with USB. They are both digital.

You could try the Lyngdorfs player, you might be surprised although its unfortunately only rj45 so you’d have to deal with ethernet noise interfering … and that is another subject entirely but I will say the WW Plantinum is pretty good but there are better. I’ve had WW Platinum and know there are better. But optimisung ethernet is quite a task.

I reckon the RP is responsible for the ‘significantly better result’. Apparently DSP like Audiolense are also really good, just not automatic. It basically makes a filter that is installed in the server a bit like upscaling.

It is possible that the combination of DSP room correction and mola will be even better than the Lyngdorf solution .

What you could try is optical out (Zone B) from Lyngdorf to Mola DAC in case that output/passes on Room Perfect filter/encoding. Although that is limited to 96kHz it might give a sense of whar mola + room correction sounds like.

Just food for thought if you are inclined to explore…

Well, @dbastin2605 , my bad if I had not mentioned that I am pretty much abandoning regular use of my Tambaqui DAC and Makua …for now. I have compared the Mola Mola gear to the experience from the Lyngdorf MP – 60 and there is simply no comparison. So the Lyngdorf is indeed my default player/endpoint.

You may be correct insofar as the DAC is concerned. My friend could easily be mistaken so perhaps it WAS an ESS chip and the company recently went to TI. I don’t know. But regardless, most of the magic I believe lies in a digital-digital path directly into the MP-60 and while there might be an EQ on the planet as good, I do not know of one that is as user friendly and powerful/effective as RoomPerfect.

[quote=“dbastin2605, post:9, topic:3777”]
It is possible that the combination of DSP room correction and mola will be even better than the Lyngdorf solution .
[/quote]But honestly I cannot imagine Audiolense or anything else can beat RP. As you suggest, a LOT to be said for the ease of RP implementation.

[quote=“dbastin2605, post:9, topic:3777”]
Although that is limited to 96kHz it might give a sense of whar mola + room correction sounds like.
[/quote] In this respect I am afraid it is impossible to integrate my Mola Mola DAC with RoomPerfect so cannot compare. I suppose I could run a line out from my Tambaqui to the Lyngdorf but that would add needless redundancy and an extra link in the chain so doubt there would be any upside. What I HAD thought of doing in order to enhance SQ of the MM DAC is to purchase a sand-alone solution to drop in between my Makua preamp and Krell amplifier. But when a key Lyngdorf factory person discouraged me from purchasing yet another piece of Lyngdorf gear (like the TDAI 3400), well, he basically told me not to “waste my money” - that I wouldn’t get any bump in SQ compared to the connection I am using now. It is the “KISS” principle. :wink:

Cheers,

I’ve been through it all. I had a McIntosh MEN 220 and a MiniDSP.
In both, I improved the room’s imperfections, leaving the sound with the curve I wanted, but something was always missing. I measured with REW, found the Aligned Sum, and realized that there was a huge cancellation at 90 Hz.
Looking at Roon Simulator, it advised me to place a subwoofer in a certain position in the room, and I did. The sound changed completely. This knowledge was a turning point for me.

I take three measurements, take the average vector, and set it to minimum phase. Then I invert up to 225 Hz, which is roughly the Schroeder frequency. For the remaining frequencies, I perform normal equalization using the same target. I multiply both filters and convolve. A whole new world opens up.

I EQ’d, convolved the filters in Roon, and, of course, sold the McIntosh and the MiniDSP. By the way, I also have a MolaMola Tambaqui, an excellent DAC.
Regards

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Congrats that you managed to get the results you were seeking. Awesome. I’m afraid much of what you discuss here is way over my head! Fortunately being the relative simpleton I am I’m satisfied with RoomPerfect.

That said if you are ever in my neck of the woods you’re welcomed to stop by my place and work your magic with my Tambaqui and Makua. I was going to sell but I suppose I’ll hold on to them…just in case! :wink:

https://youtu.be/qoFZPlXrTeM? Si=4MwLvqXbt4QZvG4d
Almost all is here and very well explained.

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Thanks for sharing but that’s just not in my DNA. I’m the first to admit that I’m at a stage in life where I confess a degree of laziness has set in, and I want easy solutions. For me personally, a direct digital feed from my K22 to my Lyngdorf sounds so good I’m content. A few fine tweaks and such and I’m good.

Wednesday I’m installing a Cerious Lumniscate power cord AND an AES cable to compare the sonic properties to USB.

As the old saying goes one man’s ceiling is another man’s floor. You have climbed great heights to achieve what you have with this bit of software. But for me personally tackling a project like this would be tantamount to being banished to the basement! Haha.

I appreciate you sharing and watched enough to know that I’ll stay with my RoomPerfect and Squeeze server. With maybe a decade of quality years left I’d rather just enjoy the music without making myself entirely crazy with all of these curves and graphs. :pray:

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Good afternoon, Bob:
If I may give you some advice, to test out the benefits of Lingdorf, I’d grab a microphone and run a switch through REW to see what it looks like. You have nothing to lose, and it’s easy.
By the way, I’m starting to get lazy too. In a few months, I’ll be 64.
I understand you. My friends tell me I’ve lost my mind.
Cheers .

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