As the above images, Antipodes K50 do not appear on the list.
Should I do the setup manually then? If yes, which values should I define on advance settings?
Max sample rate PCM?
Max bits per sample PCM?
Max sample rate DSD?
Zone grouping delay ms?
Clock master priority?
On Roon DSP setup (now called MUSE) > SAMPLE RATE CONVERSION…
Should I consider the technical capacity of the K50 as the Player, or of the Devialet DAC/Amplifier (for example the Devialet only processes up to DSD64)?
These settings matter only for the output device (the DAC). The K50 is acting as a bridge and Roon cannot identify the output device in your case. Did you search for your Devialet DAC on the device setup page? If it can find that, then these should get configured automatically.
There shouldn’t be anything to configure for the bridge device. My OCD would love to see the K50 appear in that list, but it’s really just a cosmetic thing when it comes to the bridge device.
You really need to use that only if you plan on playing back a sample rate not supported. For example, maybe you have some DSD128 files. Since your DAC supports only up to DSD64, you would have to have Roon down-sample on the fly to be able to play your DSD128 files.
I have tried to avoid using the Roon DSP capabilities because they cause a loss of transparency to my ears. It’s been a while since I tried it though. Having said that, it’s probably better to offline convert files as in my DSD128 example. But if you don’t have any files that your DAC doesn’t support, then you can leave sample rate conversion turned off.
Devialet only accepts DSD via usb or DoP when using the Devialet as player/roon endpoint. And as you are using AES, you have to use PCM
Ultimately the DAC is the limitation “Up to 24bits / 192kHz PCM (Roon Ready, UPnP, AES/EBU, Coaxial)”.
In my experience using sample rate conversion can be an improvement. For instance, upsample everything 44 and 48kHz up to 24bit 88 or 96kHz takes some workload away from Devialet and allows you to choose your preferred filter.
My suspicion is resampling, uosampling, format conversion etc puts tge data back together with less errors and other unwanted artefacts … but I am speculating. It sounds great to me. I am presently using Devialet as player and roon converts to DSD 64 then Devialet converts that back to 192/24 … best sound I’ve had.
BTW Devialet advised me every input is reclocked anyway.
I was wrong! Just read this in a Devialet White Paper …
The entire Expert range is now compatible with the DoP protocol (DSD over PCM). This new feature is available through the USB input but also on the digital XLR input (AES/EBU), the TOSLINK optical input and all coaxial digital inputs (S/PDIF). A completely unique feature.
MAT® DSD Core technology converts the DSD format into Expert internal native PCM 40 bits / 384 kHz format thanks to an optimized algorithm, limiting the amount of computational operations on the audio stream. Using only 15 bit perfect additions (no multiplication, no storage), the MAT® algorithm performs a 128 taps, linear phase FIR (Finite Impulse Response) digital filter ensuring the conversion of the DSD format into internal native PCM format with truly outstanding performances.
The key is knowing the behavior of the first stage of the Devialet’s first upsampling stage. If it upsamples all incoming frequencies, then there could be little benefit to feeding it upsampled data. Your last post mentions “expert internal native PCM 40 bits / 384 kHz format”. It could very well be that all incoming streams are scaled to that. The filter coefficients that are used in that stage are going to have an outsized influence on the sound quality. The only way to potentially circumvent that is if the incoming stream is already 8FS (352.8/384) as the internal algorithm might just pass that on without applying it own coefficients. But this would need to be confirmed with the manufacturer.
Upscaling PCM on the fly to 8FS PCM is usually not a CPU-intensive process. If there is any benefit from upscaling with software, it’s likely not the result of reducing the internal processing burden.
Configuring ROON output I tested that the Devialet accepts signals up to:
32bits / 192kHz;
Up to now I never used upsampling before, because I thought that keeping the files as they are were the purest way to play music.
After you comments here I tried the upsampling and noticed some expansion on the high notes, and the overall sound looks more relaxed. So in fact the upsampling is well received on the Devialet.
I will to some more extensive testing to see what id the best upsampling format (32/192 or DSD64) and I will come back in a few days with my conclusions.
It’s really a pity that Devialet is not developing the Expert line for some years now. I made the upgrade to core infinity with allowed the Expert line to be upgraded but they never really did any developments. For example I was told by a Devialet engineer that the conversion of the DAC from DSD64 to DSD256 was something to be offered to the clients on a new firmware release (which never happened).
K50 file output capabilities are currently way above Devialet inputs. Even though this K50 / Devialet combination (1000pro in my case) sounds really really well.
I had previously also held to the native rate is the only correct sound. Then I tinkered and discovered benefits.
After pondering Kenny’s comments, I am now listening to upsampling to 178 and 192 respectively. The processing is a lot less; PCM is around 12x whereas DSD about 2x which was probably pushing my EX into a lower performance state.
With that in mind, I am finding PCM 178 and 192 has a lower noise floor (perhaps because the EX working alot less), and sounds more precise compared to DSD being smoothed. DSD seems more pleasant.
But let’s not go Into the DSD v PCM here.
What will say is that, in my case, the improvement is not small.
My theory is that if Devialet has less computation to do, it will have less impact internally (noise generation). It’s akin to the Antipodes approach to do the heavy reclocking outside the DAC.