Leave it on all the time
Thanks for sharing your experience here. You shared a lot of information. I see internal problems (Squeeze, WAV vs. FLAC files) and external problems (Network). Regarding the former, as long as this is happening, no use to listen critically. You need a stable player first. Whatever the reason. I do not see how this could be related to the K50, but you can always do an online session with Antipodes / Mark to be sure.
Again first things first, you need a stable player. But did/can you try other connections for troubleshooting reasons? I have popping sound problems ONLY over USB with a specific DAC when changing from low-res to high-res FLAC or WAV albums and vice versa. Here the DAC is the problem, not the server.
What app are you using, mconnect? To compare can you control from a PC?
Christian I am confused. I think first you said you preferred offline (no network you mean?). Here you say offline is not sounding better with your K50.
To help you I am trying to distinguish external influences below, the network being part of that.
I am convinced the K50 will sound excellent anywhere in the world. The only ‘problem’ : what do users attach to it, network, (clean?) AC power, DAC’s, play from local SSD (you call that offline right?) vs. streaming (Qobuz etc.), where is it placed, what cables, vibrations and so on. In the end there are variables we try to eliminate or control when we are not satisfied with the sound.
Network setups are never the same and their integrity can be very important to the sound quality. Of course I agree with you that streaming and local files should sound the same. And why not have devices like streamers solve this?
But that does not exist in 2023. For example a company getting close to this is Taiko Audio, but besides a specific software they still need a separate router, a high quality power distributor, a switch and a network card to make streaming and local files sound (virtually still) the same. I believe according to some users Oladra can achieve this as well. Besides external and internal factors it depends also how and what you listen to.
Some possible network issues you could verify:
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If the network bothers you, did you isolate your audio stream with a specific audio network in the router? Either a software or hardware isolation?
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Does your iPad/Pixel connect through the same Access Point as the rest of your home network?
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Do you have many users at home using the same network while you are listening?
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Do you mind sharing your upstream network setup?
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How do you control the K50 with iPad or Pixel 7 when you are in ‘‘offline mode’’? With what app?
Keep us posted if there is progress. Good luck.
Hello. On the subject of the popping sound. It’s always the DACs that are the problem, so the servers or players should take care that this doesn’t happen. For example, when changing from different sample rates, the player software or, if you like, the server has to set a time for the DAC. So that the DAC has enough time to change over or to adapt to it. For example 3 seconds. Then nothing bangs anymore. Or makes funny crackles. This function is probably called “crossfade” in Squeeze. Seems to work every now and then. don’t stop What you describe, switching between WAV and FLAC, lower and higher resolution, is what I mean. Here the server or the player software has to act and work well for the DAC. Allow 3 seconds for the DAC to switch to the sample rate. Very easily. Aurender has that. Simple. I also find such a time specification in the squeeze settings. I even reset to default settings so I can see what the developer generally thought. I have 10 seconds set. But somehow he ignores that. Whatever the sample rate, the music happens seamlessly, no waiting in between. Maybe I don’t understand the parameters either. Is what I mean. Far too many setting options. Not user friendly.
I don’t use any special app. I use the web browser. I copied this as a link or short cut to my cell phone or tablet. So direct access. It is working. The software is now more stable than usual. But don’t try to switch back and forth between music albums and settings as often. There comes a point when everything always falls apart. Under setting C-3PO. There is a DSD Settings tab. And a tab lower, I think. If you click on it and go back, the software freezes. It’s like that. Sometimes the software starts quickly, sometimes it takes 1 minute. Close browser, restart etc.
Antipodes offered their help right away. It’s free.
Translation error of my app. To avoid confusion. The K50 sounds BEST offline (without a network connection). I don’t use streaming (Qobuz). Only hear from internal SSD. I realize that everyone has a different network setup. But go to the Antipodes site and read their philosophy. It says in no uncertain terms, stay away from all those accessories like switches…save the money for good servers. Hoping to have done this with the K50, I find that this server doesn’t do anything to eliminate network noise either. But the special architecture of the K50 reads like this. It is advertised with it. And check out other chats here. What an effort people have made to clean up their network. Many thousands of euros have already flowed into the network cleanup. So let’s be honest, we all have the same dirty network. Yes, and if so, then some are different. Should the manufacturers take commercial, domestic network environments as a reference and test their servers accordingly. Should they use the dirtiest net and work with it, examine it, research it. Unfortunately, I can no longer operate the server when it is offline. You have to swallow this toad if you want to listen to audiophile music. Get up, connect LAN, select music, disconnect LAN, sit down. We weren’t that far back then, when it all started, in 2003, 2006, but in 2023 for a server around 18,000 euros, I expect more to get the network noise under control.
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There are 2 cheap solutions: operate K50 with Ipad through wifi or cable.
Setup a second wifi extender /router/switch and do NOT connect to Internet or your home network. Create a separate network and only connect it to your K50 with an Ethernet cable. You could also connect a NAS with your WAV files to the same switch so the K50 can see the high quality WAV albums.
You can connect an iPad with a long direct rj45 cable to the switch to communicate with the K50. Or you can connect wireless to the audio only wifi router or access point that will communicate exclusively with the K50. Do not forget to connect the K50 every now and then to Internet for Antipodes updates. And disconnect from internet after the update.
An other benefit of this setup is a cleanup of your network by eliminating interference and avoid other network traffic while you are listening to audio files.
Thanks for the tip. But I think these solutions also bring dirt into the system. I also connected the former Aurender directly to my iPad via a USB WLAN adapter. Sounded just as bad. You mean something like TP-Link. I assume that this device also causes pollution. Can you try. But I’m skeptical. Which IP address does the K50 then have in the case of a direct connection?
Hi Christian,
I did not believe you till i try disconnecting the UTP cable.
This is shocking.
I do have opto isolated ethernet but it seems not enough.
Hi,
As I said above, a K50 (or any server) has to be connected to many things if you want to hear it. You seem to prefer no connections but it’s unavoidable in audio and unfortunately there is no way you can only listen to a K50 without other devices and cables. ‘Dirt’ as you call it, will always be there. So in computer audio you try to minimize ‘‘dirt’’ and the above proposed solution eliminates a lot of it.
What is left for this ‘‘as less dirt as possible’’ extremely bare audio network is:
- a router
- a switch
- a music server
- and an iPad/phone.
In the example you will create your own network SSID: AudioChristian and you enable the DHCP server. Indeed you could use for example TP-Link AC1750 Wi-Fi Extender (RE450). It could have 192.168.1.1 as address. You broadcast in the range 192.168.1.10 to 100 and the DHCP server will assign an address to the K50 and other devices like the iPad, Pixel 7 or an other music harddrive with music like a NAS for example.
If you want to improve more you can also choose good linear power supplies and better DC cables to power your router and switch and upgrade (or not) to an audiophile router or switch. Note that for example the Innuos Phoenix NET connected to a music server can make that server sound better for playing local files in the server (read that twice ;- please). I say this only to illustrate that when you add a device to a network it can benefit also as opposed to always degrading. Yes, the audio network counts, whether you like it or not.
Good luck.
There are many sources of harm we need to contend of our aim is to have reproduced music sound like the real thing. In my experience our rooms do the greatest harm. Our AC mains the likely do the next greatest level of harm. Our cables and power cords can do a lot of harm, as can our network and our equipment supports. Computers can do a heck of a lot of harm too.
For each of the areas I rattled off, there are companies who specialize in providing solutions that minimize the harm. Since these problems are difficult to solve, what we usually find is that companies are only able to solve one or maybe two of these problems at most. The skills it might take to make the very best music servers might not translate well to allowing that company to make products that compete well at addressing the other sources of harm. That’s why we see music server companies largely focusing almost all their energies on music servers. That problem is still very far from being solved so it’s not in their customer’s best interest for them to divert R&D to tackling other problems.
The good news for us consumers is that we don’t have to stick to a single brand. We can purchase best in class products from companies that specialize in doing one or maybe two things exceptionally well.
I think Innuos can show us what happens when a company overextends itself. I used to own a Zenith Mk2. We were promised an upgrade to the Mk3, but this never came. Innuos was instead focused on the PhoenixUSB. Their attention next went to the PhoenixNET. Those on the Zen or Zenith platform are seemingly stuck there unless they aim to dump their box in favor of purchasing one of the newest class of streamers they have been releasing. Antipodes, on the other hand, tries to ensure that current owners have some opportunity to bring their current server more up to date with occasional upgrades offered. That’s the way it should be done.
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Maybe create somthing yourself to disconnect the ethernet connection.
By using relais (to physical disconnect).
You can control the relais (on/off) remote.
Hi Harry, I strongly advise against using fiber optics. This is because the conversion from fiber optics to copper generates additional jitter. The server runs at peak performance in offline mode. No added jitter, no added noise. And we’re talking full power on jitter and noise! Just because of the network.
No, it is the manufacturer’s responsibility to provide me with such a slight jitter-free, noise-free music signal. Not me. For this we pay in expensive servers. I don’t think Antipodes has ever tested offline operation.
I’m able to power down my fiber span using a smart plug. It used to be that I would hear a slight uptick in sound quality with the span powered down. That changed when I started using a REF10 reference clock with my EtherRegen. After upgrading the REF10 to SE120, I found I preferred the sound quality with the fiber span powered on.
Not so if it’s done right. The signal can actually get reclocked so jitter and noise both get reduced.
In the real world, no server actually achieves this. I don’t even believe any manufacturer even claims that they are able to deliver this. Manufacturers shouldn’t be held accountable for meeting a standard they never claimed they could deliver. The noise problem is incredibly difficult to solve.
I think you have the most jittery music signal of all that it already sounds good. Disconnect everything and listen offline. Then it will be analog again.
The Grimm Audio MU1 should be able to. No matter how dirty the network is. But unfortunately never heard.
During the test, I heard an improvement when using fiber including LPS.