tried that but problem persists. think it is just age of unit and my dac.
I have had one in my system for 3 weeks. Do not believe the hype, I can assure you that it is susceptible to network changes.
Also, my Oladra sounds significantly better than it does although that might be partly down to only being able to use Roon on the Grimm 
.
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LMS means in the server part Squeeze Server is active. LMS is short for Logitech Media Server, also called Squeeze.
So try to find out if Squeeze is on or off in the server dashboard.
For Roon server with Squeeze player LMS (squeeze server) should be off.
Thanks for Informations.
I also thought for a long time about whether that could really be true. I chose the K50. In the running was a Grimm Audio MU1 and the Aurender N20. Just had a better feeling with the K50. Feelings are always important, right?
If that’s how you want to operate your server (ie making browsing/searching, selecting and cueing up what you wish to play from your own music library inconvenient), you may as well use a turntable or CD player.
Hello. Awkward indeed. I was mainly concerned with the sound. I don’t entirely agree with the rest of your comments. Actually not at all. You have to pay at least 3 times as much for a record player to compete with the K50. With a CD player or CD transport, yes, you get great results, but against a full-fledged K50 server, it also gets tight for a CD drive or player. I can handle it. i love servers I enjoyed ripping and gradually increased my collection. Starting with the Trigon Chronolog, Aurender N100H, Aurender N200 and now K50. I borrowed the Innuos, it wasn’t my cup of tea, the same goes for the Melco. I have experimented. Not much, but just come to the conclusion that the following points sound best for servers: music from internal SSD, no streaming, WAV files, no network connection. There was nothing better for me. If other components, such as switches and and and, sound better than the points I mentioned, then it is a sum of them. The financial effort that was made is significant. I’m not dictating anything to anyone here, it’s just my experience. We cannot smell, taste, see, and above all, measure jitter. We customers can only buy and listen and then we have to decide. Maybe that’s why our systems sound better because the jitter percentage is higher. Maybe jitter is good too. But all right, I know what you meant with your comment. Then I just have a K50 record player. Not everyone has either…
@AlexL1055
Inside Roon, go to Settings / Setup toggle the Enable Squeezebox Support button off, then on.
This should rectify Roon not finding Squeeze.
Thanks for your response. Yes, you’re right, it was on in the server dashboard. I’d switched it on to get into the Squeeze settings to turn off C-3PO, as I I can’t access them if its switched off. I take it then that C-3PO only functions when using Squeeze as server?
Thanks Mark, I rectified it by restarting both Roon & Squeeze a couple of times and rebooting. Your tip is much quicker.
I had wondered if you were experiencing a late mid-life crisis when I saw you mention on another forum that you were auditioning an MU1. Haha.
You should be fair with the MU1. Your Oladra, which sounds much better than the MU1, sometimes costs €10,000 to €15,000 more. Money doesn’t seem to be an issue here. And if the MU1 can only play Roon, that’s not a problem. As long as the system is tuned and designed for it and sounds perfect, that’s completely sufficient. And for many customers, Roon is the measure of all things. Better than our squeeze with our imperfect C-3PO function. Because of me, Antipodes could also be Roon only. Coordinate and maintain this. Hardly anyone uses the other apps anyway.
Part of the reason for me trying the MU1 was to test the Hans Beekhuyzen statement that to his ears the Mu1 straight into the Chord Dave meant that the Mscaler was superfluous and not needed. To keep costs realistic I therefore listened to the MU1 direct into Dave compared with a Zenith Mk3 + SRC.DX (usb to bnc converter) + Mscaler + Dave. Using my own WAVE Storm bnc cables throughout these two systems were approximately the same area of price (I did not have a price equivalent Antipodes to hand otherwise I would have used that). My conclusion was that I preferred the system with the Mscaler and I therefore do not agree with what Hans says.
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Guys, I’m a little late to this conversation (new Antipodes customer) but read with interest and empathy your issues with network noise. Forgive me if I overlooked this solution but have any of you tried the Uptone EtherREGEN? I ask because prior to joining the Antipodes family with my K22 player (with a K41 server on the way) I owned a Sonore Signature Rendu and was so enamored of the fiber experience I had so just HAD to carry it over to Antipodes. How so? I had already had the Sonore Optical Module converter and then proceeded to purchase the ER from Alex at Uptone Audio. They’ve sold 3,000 of these units in a few years. Why? It’s a wonder device!
I along with several of my friends have listened to music (local files and Qobuz) with and without fiber in the chain and 100% FOR SURE the experience with fiber is OPTIMAL. We ALL agree. No noise AT ALL.
The noise we hear on our network is analog in nature, and no analog noise can travel over glass. The selection of SFP transceivers matters also. Get the best FinIsar SFP module your budget allows and be prepared to be blown away. Single mode preferred to multimode Even if there is noise from other devices or noise in the network , the Sonore module will convert copper Ethernet to fiber (glass) and all you do is run an Ethernet cable out of the back of your EtherREGEN into your Antipodes unit and that’s it. If your budget doesn’t provide for 600- €700 you can buy a cheapie media converter on Amazon for under $50 US. Both works but the Sonore has an audiophile clock but”t in and will for sure sound better.
Unfortunately my experience with optical (fibre) is nowhere as simple or as successful as you describe.
In fact for the last few weeks I have been doing some listening test for a manufacturer comparing their prototype ethernet/fibre/ethernet conversions boxes to other commercially available media convertors ranging from audiophile ones to the cheap ones you mention from Amazon and also compared to my Innuos PhoenixNET switch.
In the past I have also owned and EtherREGEN and used that in my system both with and without fibre.
In summary, whilst I agree with you that in theory the fibre cannot pass electrical noise I have always found that introducing fibre into the system sounds worse than without it. By worse what I mean is that the sound takes on the characteristics of noise in a digital system such as slightly exaggerated percussion and the music being out of balance with any percussive or plucked notes being dominant in the overall sound. Initially the sound has a sort of ‘wow, thats amazing’ feel to it but eventually it becomes fatiguing and it is a relief to return to the calmer sound when using the Innuos PhoenixNET. This applies when streaming the music from such as Qobuz or even if playing locally stored music files on my Oladra.
I have tried using different power supplies with the optical conversion devices and the quality of the power supply does seem to make a difference but even when using the best sounding power supply I could find (a Sean Jacobs DC4) the introduction of the optical conversion was worse than without it.
My own personal theory is that the final optical to ethernet convertor generates noise and that this noise is greater than the noise that is being removed by the fibre link.
When I had the EtherREGEN I heard the difference it made by having it in my system (just ethernet, no fibre) and thought that clearly audible difference must be better. But then I had the opportunity to borrow a PhoenixNET and set about doing some more credible listening where I compared each device to a base sound which was to have my Antipodes disconnected to the ethernet. Basically I pulled the ethernet cable after the track started to play. Obviously this only works when playing locally stored files. I concluded that the PhoenixNET was the only device that sounded as good as when I had the ethernet disconnected from the Antipodes. I sold my EtherREGEN the day after and bought a PhoenixNET for myself.
Just to be clear on this, all of the noise we are discussing is completely inaudible by itself. With no music playing no noise whatsoever can be heard. Indeed if any noise can be heard then it must be something else and be some other sort of noise. The noise we are discussing is out of audioband high frequency noise which gets through to the DAC analogue stages and causes intermodulation distortion in the music. Typically this is a hardening to the top end or percussive sounds but it does also affect bass and mid ranges although in not quite so noticeable a way. A track I often use to hear the effect of this noise is Spiral Stair by Mammal Hands. This has a lot of background percussion instruments going on and this can tend to dominate the music if it is exaggerated or emphasised by the noise we are discussing. Without the noise the track becomes calmer and one can sit back and delight in the main event which is the glorious saxophone.
I will be reporting back to the manufacturer of the prototype fibre/ethernet conversion boxes that unfortunately I cannot recommend their proposed product because it sounds worse that just connecting my Oladra to a cheap second hand Cisco WS-C2960C-8TE-L switch with an ethernet cable. I suspect they will decide to bring it to market anyway because they are convinced that buyers will want the optical ‘badge’ and will not be bothered how it sounds. They will look at the milled solid aluminium boxes and fancy packaging and be happy to hand over £1k to £2k depending on the option selected.
By the way, I did try several cheap media convertors from Amazon in the £50 UKP price area and they were truly terrible for sound. I also tried a range of SFP modules including the best Finisar ones. I compared single mode to multimode fibre (there was no difference at all between those).
A fellow Oladra owner kindly loaned me his Dela S100 switch to compare to my PhoenixNET and I happily confess that he and I differ in which of those we prefer and also he prefers the Dela when it is connected by fibre but for me I hear the tell tale sounds with the fibre. Luckily we agree to disagree on that and we are still friends!
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Hello Nick, well what can I say…I think I’ll borrow the PhoenixNet again. They even describe that in interaction with PhoenixNet they come very close to offline operation. I’ve been searching for the holy grail for 7 years. At the time, I didn’t really like the PhoenixNet in combination with the Aurender N200. So the music didn’t get quieter with the PhoenixNet, but rather louder and more powerful. Offline was better for me. Maybe the PhoenixNet is a better fit for my K50. I can also say that I continue to fight. I now have Network Accoustics in my system. Try and listen and of course compare against my beloved offline operation. I now own the Muon Pro Filter + their streaming cable + the current Switch Tempus. We are also talking about a total package of around €7,500 when it comes to network cleanup. Maybe you have the opportunity Nick to test/try out my package. Especially in relation to your PhoenixNet? So, I tested against offline today. I just really like the K50 in offline operation. Offline sound is just awesome!! Network Accoustics is good, there’s a lot going on, but somehow the music is too open for me, it’s very tangible because the stage is almost 2 meters forward, but that’s somehow not realistic. The music seems louder but also more organic (should fit Antipodes). When offline, the music feels quieter, much more coherent and therefore more understandable. Somehow more honest. I’m going crazy! I don’t think I’m going anywhere anymore. In my opinion, the current network cleanup by Network Accoustics has too much of a difference in sound compared to offline operation. It is also clear to me that offline operation is not possible at all in terms of sound. Too many factors come into play like power cable, power supply and structure of the power supply from the switch, Ethernet cable… So many sonic influences… but I just love unplugging the LAN plug on the K50 and listening to music like that. I immediately realize, yes, that’s how it has to be. So my ears immediately react positively to offline operation.
Interesting observations. Unless mentioned elsewhere, for the record and to allow fair comparison, could you share if your as of today K50 is/has :
- 1st gen
- Squeeze + Squeeze player
- Samsung PM893
- specific app settings applied
Thanks!
Given that you’re in testing mode, I suggest experimenting with this Active Optical Transceiver Cable (AOT) cable. It appears to produce significantly less noise. The transceivers don’t even heat up much, just a slight warmth, I would say. The sound is the most ‘natural, analogue etc.’ sounding compared to all the Finisair 14xx series transceivers’ and even the Finisair AOT cable. YMMV of course. I’m unable to explain why, and what’s even more perplexing is that I found the sound of the 5-meter cable preferable to that of the 10-meter cable. (But I will retry at one point to be 100% sure of that).
CISCO SFP-10G-AOC5M 10G 5M SFP+Active Optical Transceiver Cable.
You can find reviews on AudiophileStyle and purchase off Ebay (I paid this one US $32.48, shipping included).
@PaulW Thanks. I am always in test mode!! I am up for trying that!
Can you tell me please what switch you are using at each end of that AOT cable? I read that it doesn’t work with the Cisco 2960 that I have.
It seems counterintuitive, but once the network has been improved to a certain level, disconnecting the network can actually degrade the sound. I believe it occurs when the noise generated by the network adapter on the server when it keeps retrying in hopes of hearing a response rises above the noise of the treated network itself. As soon as the cable is reattached the network adapter begins receiving responses so it settles itself down. (I am speculating).
The sound coming forward is what I’d expect from a lowered noise floor as long as it’s expanding in all dimensions - and it’s not just the entire thing moving forward.
A fun track I’ve used in the past to assess soundstage expansion and imaging precision was, I think, the third track on Roger Waters “Amused to Death”. This was recorded in QSound, which amazingly allowed them to place images in a 3D space with just two speakers. First time I heard it was on an amazing Spectral/Avalon system. I was actually hearing sound coming from behind me - to the point where I even got up to see if there were speakers behind me (there weren’t any). I’ve yet to hear images coming from directly behind in my own system but over the years it’s been fascinating to check in on that track to see how things are progressing. As my system as improved, I’ve been more palpably immersed in a sound field that stretches out and even places me inside it so that I hear sounds emerging from my left and my right - and more recently- from behind my left and right shoulders. It’s a fake soundstage of course so it’s impossible to know what’s right or wrong, but the sense of being in the immersed in a sound field should improve as a system get better. Hard to describe but you’ll know it when you hear it.
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I think I am close to OT but still a good question. In my setup the Cisco AOT cable will work with :
Tp-Link MC220L to EtherRegen (+JS-2),
but I can not get it recognised by Mikrotik CRS305 (switch mode) to EtherRegen
Still, to me, as to Martin on AS (his setup in his signature) , the AOT sounds less harsh (less noise?) than Mikrotik CRS305 (switch mode) to EtherRegen with :
- 2x Finisar 1318
- 1x Finisar 1318 and 1x Finisar 1475DBL
connected with OS-2 LC-LC duplex
Best of luck, Nick! Just a heads up, make sure not to purchase the Finisar AOT but rather the CISCO version. They look very similar and are often confused, especially on eBay.
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